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John: "Let's
see if he remembers about when it was made." (indicating
old Jensen engine sitting on table)
Dedlon: "Here..
Sit down."
John: "I want you to sit down so you can
see this over here."
Dedlon: (chuckle) What about it?
John:
"I want you to look at it and tell me when you
think it might have been made."
Dedlon: Well.... in the
thirties, sometime. I would say. For several years I can't hear.
sometimes I blow my ears then I hear better.
John: I'll
talk loud or write it . Sit down and look at it.
Dedlon: When
it was made, I don't know. You get one for Christmas present?
John
: In 1939... yeah. But the big difference is the color of
this blue ... We've only found 2 engines, I've got a photo of another
one, a small number 5 that had this blue, all the other blue was
dark.
Dedlon: I don't remember that.... probably
to find paint, whatever we had we had to get it. So uh.. (chuckle)
I'm no good with remembering dates. (garbled)
John: Well,
you, of course helped Tom back in the early days
Dedlon: do What?
John:
You helped Tom back in the early days
Dedlon: We started
it together
John: That's right
Dedlon: You see, if it
hadn't been for him... for me, we couldn't have started. Because
he was the one man making and he couldn't make all the parts. So,
and, I worked for Elliot at that time, during the Depression, and
when I got off well, so then we made steam engines. (short garbled)
John:
Are you familiar with the numbers that Tom put on his engines later...
Dedlon:
No.. no, not at all
John: Like the number 20 and the number
10, have you ever heard of those?
Dedlon I know nothing
about the numbers.
John: The first engine he made in 1932-33,
in your basement was this kind... we do know that... had the 4 screw
holes.
Dedlon: That kind... yeah
John: And then later...
Dedlon:
I know... I cut off all the, half of the slide valves... these
pieces, I cut them off in when we were down in (garbled). I cut
them off.... on the lathe.
John: Then, we think around 1936 was
when this was made, because then he added the generator.
Dedlon:
No... it was before that though...
John: Before that?
Dedlon:
Yeah... I think the generator, I think the generator (was)
from the very beginning
John: From the very beginning...Ok, ok
...then that tells us....
Dedlon: Yes... (laughter)
John:
If that was true then...
Dedlon: We had to get the magnets...
and we wrote the people who made magnets (chuckle) an we ordered
6. Now days they wouldn't consider an order like that. But
we made 6... we got 6 magnets...(laughter)
John: (decides to
retrieve a chair to join Dedlon at the table)
Mrs Jensen: He
went to fix his hearing aid. He has an old one that was his mother's.
John: We've been trying to get him to get a new one... it's
a 1950's
Mrs. Jensen: He keeps his batteries in his pocket.
(Redacted
discussion of where Mrs Jensen left her glasses at home)
(Dedlon
returns)
John: So it's your recollection and memory that the
first engines you built for Macy's and for F.A.O. Schwarz...
Dedlon:
That (garbled) when he began them... When you came over
here in 1931 he started making them and he finished them before
Christmas. And he tried to sell them... and that of course,
that was the best time. Thomas couldn't speak English, he didn't
associate with any who talked English. He lived with me, you know
and so I had to do the talking. There were two stores up in Greensberg,
one was Bonsom (sp?) and Kaufmann's. I remember when we got
up there, it fell apart...the slide valve, the soldering was not
good enough. The man up there from the store, he came down. He fixed
it.... but I don't remember.
John: Did you nickle plate
from the very beginning?
Dedlon: Yeah... we did that...
right.
John Where did you get the nickle plating done? Do you
remember that?
Dedlon: Very Little... yeah... I know that. Up
in Greensberg, there was a man who did nickle plating.
John:
So that was done from the very beginning?
Dedlon Yeah...
oh yes.
John: Right... he did that ... he nickle plated
it all so it wouldn't tarnish?
Dedlon: No.. oh no.. that was
the... nickle plating.
John: Then why did he nickle plate
over the brass... why did he nickle plate it?
Dedlon: Oh... I
don't know... that was Thomas's idea. He said to nickle plate it...
I had no question about it. I don't know.
John: I suspect it
was nickle plated so that... if it was left brass, it would
turn color.
Dedlon: Oh.. of course... it would tarnish. Yeah
John:
Ok.. we figure he nickle plated so that it....
Dedlon: Oh... Thomas...
he was behind it.
John Ok.. so you think that the very beginning
ones had the generator on it, then.
Dedlon: Yes... I think
it had. I remember we wrote to that company and we ordered 6. and
I am wondering about if they would do that. We got the 6.
John:
Now... Moens was given one in 1939...one like this.
Dedlon: When
he got that... I don't know
John: That's what he told me. Did
you ever get one?
Dedlon: Me?...No...no
John: You never kept
one?
Dedlon: No. I've been interested in steam engines too,
but I always made my own. Like Thomas made his own.
John: Right...
right
Dedlon: Now... you know what?... Was it the same year we
sold them in Pittsburgh. Because I was the salesman. I remember
I said to the man in there.... now..I'm not a salesman, I said,
so don't expect the ordinary sales talk from me. Oh... He
said to me, If I settle for that I wouldn't keep my job. His name
was Kramer and he was with Kaufmann's. And there was a Mrs. Hall.
John:
So you were... you had made it possible for Mrs Jensen and Tom to
stay with you?
Dedlon.. Pardon?
John: You had arranged
for Tom and Ellen to stay with you.
Dedlon: Oh yeah..yes... he
was my cousin. I was also related to Mrs. Jensen, there. Ellen's
father and my father they were cousins. So one generation away,
but I'm related to her also. (short garbled).
John: How did it
begin that Tom and you came up with the idea....
Dedlon: Yeah
and I can tell you that...
John:.... to make the steam engines?
Dedlon:
Now I can tell you that. When they moved to here, I tried to,
of course, to get a job for Thomas down at Elliot's. I talked
to my boss and he said " In ordinary times we could have taken
him on, but we can't do it now, because we are laying people off.
We can't take on any new ones." He said that. So, uh...Otherwise,
he would have got a job down there. Because I can tell you...
(chuckle) I can tell you what they said... I'm Danish... and they
had another fellow there, he's not there anymore, but he was also
a Dane. And they said... We have pretty good luck with the Danes.
John... (chuckle).. pretty good luck with the Danes, huh?
Dedlon:
He was willing to take Tom on ... but, uh... as I say... times were
bad, you know... oh boy, you know?
John: Were you a mechanical
engineer?
Dedlon: Yeah..We are both graduates of technical
school in uh...
John: Copenhagen?
Dedlon: I graduated.. I'm
4 years older than Thomas, so I graduated in 1922. When did Tom
graduate?
Mrs Jensen: 1927
Dedlon: So he was 5 years after
me then.
John: So.. He couldn't get a job at Elliot's, then when
did the idea to start steam engines...
Dedlon I can remember
that too. One day we were up in Douglas street, up there. And
Ellen comes up to me . How would it be to.. if Thomas
starts making make small engines? Well you come to me then. I
said that... I remember that plainly.
John: You did?... I never
heard that story.. It was Your idea, huh?!!(laughter)
Dedlon:
Well... it might be Thomas's idea and he would say to her... but
she came and said it to me.
Mrs. Jensen: I think... not really... I
really think...
Dedlon:Well.. you said that what do you think
of that, but I don't know I said. I have a shop here and lathe on
so on and he can try. And that he did then.
John: had he made
any engines prior.. or after he graduated from college?
Mrs Jensen:
Just "Big Bertha"
John: He made "Big Bertha"
and he didn't make any more until he started here with Moens...
uh. Mr Pedersen. Huh... that's interesting. So he made the first
one down in your basement?
Dedlon: Yes he did.. he made them
all there.
John: All of them there. How many years was
he there, do you know? Before they moved to 2nd street?
Mrs Jensen:
He was only with you one year, Dedlo', Because then in 1932 , in
February I think, January or February we moved to Casale's.
Dedlon
Yeah ... they moved after one year....living down in our cellar.
John:
In your cellar?
Dedlon then you got that ... uh.. went to that
place out there on, uh..
John: Michigan Avenue?
Dedlon Yeah...
that's right
John: You had helped Tom get a lot of his early
raw materials...from Elliot's.
Dedlon: Yeah... well, I
ordered through Elliot's
John: You ordered through Elliot's?
Dedlon: I ordered through Elliot's
John: You couldn't get
a bank loan, I heard.
Dedlon: All the banks were closed.
John:
All the banks were closed?
Dedlon: Of course...I had to
finance it because, of course, Ellen and Thomas had just come from
Denmark. They couldn't buy all that material and so on. I had money
in the bank so I went down there and was a little, you remember
that little Patterson? I told him the story, that we need that money
for buying materials. Nope, nope, you can't get any money,
you can't get anything. Well, I said, we are making this for Christmas
and then we sell it for Christmas to get money again and we'll put
all the money back again. No, he said, I couldn't get anything.
John:
So you couldn't get your own money out of the bank?
Dedlon: No,
but I'll tell you how we got money then. There was something in
that time called "Postal Savings".
John: Postal Savings?
Dedlon:
Postal Savings... Does that exist anymore?... I don't know. And
the Post office was just like a bank. There was no checking account
or anything like that, but you could go in and buy certificates.
You had the certificates and they got your money. So I had
that. So I go down to the Post Office and of course, that was the
government and they couldn't refuse to give you money. So I got money
there... so that is how we financed it.
John: Is that right?...
What did have to you use for collateral? Did they just give you
the money?
Dedlon: It was like a bank, like your bank you would
deposit it.
John: Ok.. ok...
Dedlon: and they would give
you a certificate for that money. And of course, I had the certificates
and I got the money back then. Everything was ok.
John:
Well when Tom made the first engine in your basement, he had one,
now did he make more than one or did you take the one engine and
you went out and sold it?.
Dedlon:No.. oh no. He made that...
I don't know how many he made begin with. He might have made them
6, I think so. So we took them up there up to.. they were on consignment.
If they couldn't sell them we'd get them back. If we got them back
or not I do not remember.
John: But you made 6 to begin with?
Dedlon:
Yeah.
John: That was the first engine you made. The first batch
were 6 engines.
Dedlon: And then we made them down... for Pittsburgh.
I don't know how many come but it was only 1 or 2 or 3, I don't
know.
Mrs. Jensen: I don't think they bought many
Dedlon:
No... not many.. No, no. in fact, we couldn't make many. And (garbled)
was all consignment, but if we got them back, I do not recall.
Mrs.
Jensen: I don't remember... I don't remember that either.
John:
Now... do you... if can you... can you think back in your
mind? Is it clear in you mind still, when you were in your cellar,
in your house with Tom down there building those first 6 engines...
can you recall if it had the light or not?
Dedlon: That one there
has always been connected to the generator. There's no reason to
have a generator you if it didn't have a light.
John: So in you
mind then those ones that were built in your basement....
Dedlon:
Those were the original models.
John: The original models...
Dedlon:
There were no changes made.
John: So you'd would have...
Mrs
Jensen: They've always had the generator.
John: You've always
had the generator. I was real confused about that.
Dedlon: Yeah.
John: So you remember... he'd run them in your basement, in
your cellar, and you'd see the lights, so that's how we know he
had a generator.
Dedlon Yeah...
John: OK.
Dedlon: That
was... yeah
Mrs. Jensen: That was always there. He always
had the light post and little bulb there.
John: So... he
would have had the generator then.... good. Now, do you recall
where he got the cast iron bases done?
Dedlon: Yes I sure do.
They were made down here in the hollow at Truxel's foundry.
John:
What's the name of that foundry?
Dedlon: Truxel.... T -R-U-X-E-L
John:
Truxel... are they still in business?
Dedlon: No... no, no they're
out of the business.
John: out of business...
Dedlon: The
old man Truxel, he died, of course, he was an old man. And his son
took over and he's dead too. And I think the foundry down in
(town name not clear) down there. H&H foundry they bought
it, but they closed it up just last march.
Mrs Jensen: would
that be Clarence Lesix foundry now?
John: Clarence Lesix Foundry?
Dedlon:
That's down in Bragg, that was... we're talking Truxel foundry.
The hung on for I don't know how many years. And then it's all closed
now
Mrs. Jensen: Oh.. its all closed now?
Dedlon: Yes... it
closed.... nothing there... only the buildings.
John: Now...
do you remember how Tom came up with the moulds for the foundry?
Dedlon:
Yeah... he made them. He made them out of brass.
John:
He would machine these of moulds...
Dedlon: Don't they still
have that down there?
John: Well... he still does, but then these
were like sand casting moulds.
Dedlon: Sand casting... that's
right.
John: So he would do that for this and for these.
Dedlon:
For many years Truxel made the castings... the cast iron casting.
Yeah... that was Truxel.
John: Then he would get the steel and
he'd bend this himself. The fire box.
Dedlon: He ordered the
brass tubes for the boilers. Elliot bought them. (chuckle)You see
I ordered them. I had some pretty good friends around there.
So the purchasing agent, he bought our tubes and I think (garbled)
brought them out then. The first we got were cut off, we order
them in pieces. From the part that was to small (garbled) in different
sizes. And later on we cut them up in the lathe... I think so.
John:
Do you remember the real interesting tool Tom made very early to
drill the holes. It was a 10 radial drill press.
Dedlon: That's
right.
John What do you recall about how that came about. Because
we found the wooden...
Dedlon: Where he got the idea. I had nothing
to do with that. He made that when he was out there on "Gum
Hill".
John: Where was Gum hill? Where does he mean when
he say's Gum Hill?
Dedlon: I can't tell you that...
Mrs.
Jensen: on that side of Jeannette
John: What's the
street called?
Mrs. Jensen: Michigan Avenue.
John: So you
all moved to Michigan Avenue. Michigan avenue is where you moved?..
Michigan avenue was where he made that tool.
Dedlon: Yeah...
that's right.
Mrs. Jensen: That was made while we were at the
Casale's.
John: so.... when you were at the Casale's?
Mrs.
Jensen: We lived...we rented 3 rooms from an Italian family,
a lovely family, by the name of Casale. C-A-S-A-L-E... and
Tom... they let him just....
Dedlon: Yes... when you got that
out there... you're talking about he could be allowed to use the
cellar for a shop and he got permission to do that.
Mrs Jensen:
Yes
John: Right...
Dedlon: And then of course then he went
away from me, he didn't have a lathe. So he bought a lathe from
Jakoffs. Do you know Jakoffs? The man who built the cement building
up there.
(discussion between Mrs. Jensen and Dedlon about who
was related to whom to clarify who Clarence Jakoffs was and
disagree whether Jakoff's or Frederigno sold Tom the lathe.)
Mrs.
Jensen: How did Jakoffs get the lathe?
Dedlon: I can tell you
that too. Jakoffs, he got... invented a spark intensifier for a
car. He told me that. He invented that. And then he wanted to start
manufacturing it. So he built that cement building in order he could
make his spark intensifier. And then of course he also bought a
lathe for his start to manufacturing. and he started making something...
and then he got a patent on it. When he had started there was already
one on the market. So he went to them and said "Hey... you
have to stop that. I have a patent on that. The man said I have been
making that for several years. That invalidated Jakoff's patent.
(garbled) So all Jakoffs' building all was in vain. So he had that
lathe and it was for sale and Thomas bought that. I was out there
when Jakoffs came out and got his money for it. (chuckle) That was
a day when I was out there working... working out there. When Jakoff's
come out there and wanted there his money. Frederigno had nothing
to do with that.
John: Before Tom invented that drill press with
the ten holes to it... how did he put these rivets in before? See
these rivets here?
Dedlon: ... Yeah.. those
John: How
did he do that before he had a tool? How did he do it?... just do
it one at a time?
Dedlon He had a little drill jig.
John:
a little drill jig?
Dedlon Yeah... a little ring with holes in
it and he did it on a drill press.
John: so he'd end up doing
it one at a time.
Dedlon: one at a time...yeah... with that ring
John:
Later he could do 10 at a time.
Dedlon: And uh.. then
he got what you called escution pins.
John: escution pins...
Dedlon:
you just hammered in... the holes were, you might say, a little
small. You hammered then in and they fit tight.
John: And then
you soldered them
Dedlon: and then we'd solder all the way around....
solder all the way around there and use a.. use a record player,
you might call it... for solder.
John: What was the
first sale in the Jeannette area that you made... was it Kaufmanns
that bought one?
Dedlon... No... uh
John: When did
you first get money from somebody for a steam engine?
Dedlon:
Well.. Well, uh..the next time.. the next time... Mrs. Jensen worked
out at the place out there and they had a chauffeur
there by the name Johnny.. that's all I know. And one day he said to Ellen,
I know a man who is a toy salesman, by the name of Trout. My neighbor.
And he.. Johnny got you (Mrs. Jensen) in connection with Trout.
(in
the early years, Mrs. Jensen worked as a maid for a local wealthy
family who had their chauffeur
pick her up on Monday morning and return her on Friday evenings. She lived with
this family during her work week)
Mrs. Jensen: Yeah... That's
right...
Dedlon: Yeah.. (chuckle) yeah that's right, what I'm
telling... I remember that plainly. And then he got one engine and
he said that's a sample I'm not ashamed to go in and show. I know
he said that. So he went... now this Mrs. Hall in Horn's in Pittsburgh.
she said to me... why don't you try F.A.O Schwarz in New York. That's
the largest toy show.. toy store in the word. That's what she said.
And I said that to Trout. Trout... he didn't know that. So then
he went to New York, he went into Macy's and then to the F.A.O.
Schwarz and there was a man by the name of Strouble. He was a toy
buyer.. S-T-R-O-U-B-L-E. (garbled).(laughter)
John: that's great
(chuckle)
Dedlon: And then he sold to.. and then he sold uh...the
first order, he got fifty.. uh... engines from Macy's and I don't
know how many Schwarz got. I don't remember that. But I know...
and then we had to get busy, you know. Do you remember what
year that was Ellen? No.. that was before '35.
Mrs. Jensen It
would have been probably '34.
John: 1934
Dedlon: When
Trout, he came with that order... when Trout came with that order,
we had to get busy, so I ordered from the Screw machine parts, over
in Connecticut. I don't know where it was. Just one part for the
screw machine. For the safety valve and some other parts. And there
was a piece that didn't come in on time. So we wouldn't pay for
it. I said.. I wrote them and said That's alright, we have no use
for it now since it came too late, so you know... I don't remember.
But I don't think we paid for that... it was a certain piece. I
don't remember now what piece it was. But anyway, we got that and
made screw machine parts. I remember it came down there regular
express. I don't know why they didn't bring it out. I had to carry
that in my arms... two (garbled) cardboard boxes. That's how we
got them. We made these screw machine parts. But I think we made
them, all of them ourselves. And then we.. And then of course
we had to make these 50 for Macy's. And that's something for
two men to make, Thomas and myself, so worked like we had a fire
behind us. I remember we hard at work in the evening to finish them..
the last batch. And Moens was a little boy.. we had about 12:00
- 1:00 at night, I think he was home, that time.. we lived
on 2nd street.
John: When was Moens born? What year?
(note:
Moens was Dedlon's son)
Mrs. Jensen: 1927
Dedlon: '27... he's
65 now...(chuckle)
John: Do you remember this label right here?...
Decal.
Dedlon: No... that's called a decal...
John Do you
remember this decal? Have you ever seen this decal?
Dedlon: Yeah...
many times I've seen that.
John: Do you know when he started
using the decal?
Dedlon: No... I can't say that... You see...
we got them and of course we... there were these 50 engines
for Macys. We didn't know so much about everything.. we had to get
them shipped. I went down in the shipping department. I got the
fellows down there to make a big wooden box. It was a box about
that big. You know...50 engines they did take some room, you know.
and uh...
John: These are big and they're heavy... they're heavy
and they're big.
Dedlon: Yeah.. and we got.. I remember that we
couldn't get but 49th .. but we did get it in though... but I don't
remember how. But that was Elliot, you know. They made that
box for us and it was out on the Gum Hill there and Elliot's was
a great help too for that matter.
John: So really Elliot's company
really made it possible for the Jensen steam engines.
Dedlon:
Yeah.. for argument sake... but that you might say.. was more practical.
I was good friends with them and they agreed to do that.
John:
Do you think it hadn't been a depression and Thomas got a job full
time, he may not have done the steam engines?
Dedlon: No... He
might not have, no. You see, when he left Denmark, he was promised
a job over here. Up in the Youngstown Ohio area. His name was Oldersen..
he was a Dane, he was chief engineer or chief carpenter.. I don't
know what. But then, of course, after that we got a depression
so they had no use for him. I remember Thomas wrote up there and
he got the letter back.... and nothing doing.
Mrs: Jensen: Those
were hard time. There hasn't been anything since like that depression.
We've had recessions, but that....
Dedlon: Yeah...
John: That's
right...
Dedlon: As you say there.. if it hadn't been for the
depression, these men they wouldn't assist us.
John: If
it hadn't been for the Depression and if it hadn't been for Elliot's....
Dedlon:
Yeah... Elliot's just helped us of course...
John: Yeah... because
if it hadn't been for Elliot's, though, ordering the materials,
you probably would have had a hard time getting raw materials.
Dedlon:
No in those.. not to be had... no there was trouble with that
though. They were more than willing to sell to us.
John: Oh..
they were..
Dedlon: Yeah... no problems getting materials or
anything.
John: Yeah... now Tom never started back then, in the
early days, didn't start drawing the parts out... the engineering
drawings.
Dedlon: You know...You remember... gradually Thomas
made more and more tools... in fact he has made all the tools. He
was a good tool maker... in fact he was good at everything.
John:
The drawings he has now, I notice the dates on them are like 1946,
47. And it seems like that's when he began to put everything down
on paper, because back there in the 30's he didn't know if he'd
be doing this the next year or not. So he didn't seem to spend a
lot of time making drawings, or at least I haven't seen any that
go back to the 30's. Did he work from drawing or did he just work
from up here?
Dedlon: No... he made drawings of it.
John:
Back in the 30's?
Dedlon: Yeah.. to begin with. I can tell
you about that too, because, as I say, to begin with I tried to
get him in on down at Elliot's. But there was nothing doing and
then... When did Thomas start down there?
Mrs. Jensen: 1935
Dedlon:
Alright..well... we went back home in Denmark, my wife and I and
then we came back again. Thomas, he had engaged Clayborne. And then
I said well... now he has a man to help him. But I don't help so
much anymore. so that was when .. .out there on Rubber Hill....Jefferson
avenue.
Mrs. Jensen (laughing) You said Rubber hill
John:
Gum Hill
Mrs. Jensen: Gum Hill..
John: Do you know if...
Dedlon:
That was... You know about the drawings...
John: Yeah..
the drawings.
Dedlon: Yeah... then Thomas... so we came back
from Denmark. And I don't know .. when did he start? Was it 35
when he started with Elliot? Ellen?
Mrs. Jensen: Yeah...
I think
Dedlon: Times got better. And one day I heard the chief
draftsman there, another man standing there talking. And just as
I past them, I heard the chief draftsman tell him to get a man.
He said that to the other man. I just heard that. And I turned around
and well... I just heard you say you need a new man. How about employing
my cousin? They knew about Thomas because I had these engines down
there and showed them told them the story. So, they knew all...
well I won't say all about , but a lot about us. anyway
John:
I bet they liked them too.
Dedlon: Yeah.. oh yes, well (chuckle)
I can tell you about that too though. so anyway, so I said how about
consider my cousin. Well the chief draftsman said, Does he have
anything he can show that he is capable of? I don't know,
he might have been in doubt... I don't know. But I said They...
you know they might be steam engines because he made toys,
for making the steam engines. Alright he said... send him down here
and take the drawings along. That is how I know we had drawings...
John.. Ok...
Dedlon: ...because Thomas came down there
and showed him to the drawings and got engaged.
John: He got
the job from that.
Dedlon: Yeah...
John: Do you know where
those drawings might be?
Mrs. Jensen: they would have to be....
Dedlon:
Well... they might not exist anymore.
Mrs. Jensen: I don't know.
He brought...
Dedlon: You know, he probably made up drawings....
slipped out of Elliot's.(chuckle)
Mrs. Jensen: I don't
know where they might be.
John: You don't have an idea where
they might be?.
Mrs: Jensen: The only place I can think of in
our house would be in the den... but I don't know.
John: Well,
that's good to know because we've never been able to determine
if there were early drawings or not.
Dedlon: Yes there were..
absolutely..He had them down to show the chief draftsman and then
of course when he saw them he could see that there was a man there
was rather capable of drawing. He got the job there.
John:
Did the..
Dedlon: Well I can tell you one thing though... this
chief draftsman, he left Elliot's, and there came up another
chief draftsman in there.
John: Do you remember the name of the
chief draftsman that hired Tom?
Dedlon: Yeah... Major
John:
Major?
Dedlon: M-A-J-O-R... yeah..
John: Major was his name...
Dedlon:
Yeah.. he was from (garbled), his father was a Doctor and they told
me old man Major was a good Doctor, when he was sober.(laughter)
John:
When he was sober huh? What was the reaction of the fellows down
at Elliot's....
Dedlon: Yeah. I can tell you that too.
John
.... at Elliot's when they saw these run?
Dedlon: He had children
and the old man had a son there, Phil Elliot, old man Elliot's the
youngest son. I still remember that young Elliot he was sitting
there and turning the flywheel.
John: Turning the flywheel...
Dedlon:
Yeah...
John: Did you steam them up down there... plug it in
and let them steam them?
Dedlon: No no... you couldn't do that.
We had 220 volts.
John: Oh...that's what you used. 220 Volt.
Dedlon:
Do you know why?
John: No.
Dedlon: So that they wouldn't steal
the bulbs.
John: Is that right?
Dedlon: Yeah.
Mrs. Jensen:
What was that you just said?
John: They used 220 volt electricity
at Elliot's so the employees wouldn't steal the light bulbs. Because
at home it was 110 (volt).
Mrs. Jensen: Ooooohhh... (chuckle)
Dedlon:
Yeah..
John: I'll be darned!!
Dedlon: Yeah... oh yeah...Ask
me...(chuckle)
John: Now, the first steam engines up until about
1960, all of the Jensen steam engines were electric.... all of them
were electric, all of them had a cord.
Dedlon: That might be
so.. that I don't know.
John: Yeah, they were all electric.
Dedlon:
That... oh that was another thing too, though.... that was another
thing. When I tried to sell it to, yeah it was Kaufmanns, of course.
It was a man, Kramer was his name...
John: Yeah... Kaufmann's
... right.
Dedlon: You see we had an .. (chuckle) I can see it
still... (chuckle) We had it fired with alcohol and Thomas, he had
made an alcohol burner. It was something he had soldered together.
I still remember this (chuckle). It was in here, you know, and he
was sitting there and he said, Now, he said, now look what
you've made here... a piece like this. It wasn't the same
quality as the engine. He said, No... we won't buy it with alcohol,
it has to be electric. And then after you've made it electric
you can come back.
John: Is that right? That's an interesting
story. So initially he would take them down with his alcohol
burner and they liked it but they said they didn't like the flame.
Dedlon:
I remember he said that when you make it with electric heat you
can come back.
John: When you make it with electric heat you
can come back. And that was at Kaufmanns?
Dedlon That's Kaufmanns...there
was a Mrs Hall, but what does she know about steam engines?
John:
So it was the woman who said come back with the electric?
Dedlon:
No... no.. it was Mr. Kramer with Kaufmanns... and Mrs Hall,
Miss Hall, a woman. Of course, you know... a woman don't
know much about a steam engine.
John: Right... right. Well...
that's real interesting. Boy... that's a nice piece of...
Dedlon:
Yeah... and then we had to.. we couldn't make an electric heater
so we contacted a company in Pittsburgh, by the name of Beacon's,
who made electric heating elements. They had a heating element,
I don't know what they used it for, that we could use too.
John:
Was it a ceramic white thing with a wire around it?
Dedlon: No..
no I think I had one of them like that down there with that once.
No there was one with a stand down there, a stand down there. No
Thomas, he designed and made them, the one with the.. uh...yeah.
John: So, he designed that.
Dedlon: And he also made them
with a round heating element. And they were made in Ohio. What was
the name of that town that makes the harness in Ohio? Over in north
west Ohio... well that makes no difference. And they made them...
and uh... made this style that we never made by ourselves. One
under the boiler, but the other heating element was in the boiler
itself.
John: That's right. Because the early ones of these had
the heating element in the back, inside.
Dedlon: Yeah...
John:
And you think you have one of these early elements ?
Dedlon:
Yeah.. I think I do down there.. yeah.
John: I would like to
see it sometime, maybe not today, but sometime you could find
that. What was Thomas's mood during this period when he was developing
these steam engines?
Dedlon: That's just it... That's just....
I was thinking of that by myself . I think had it been me,
I couldn't quite have taken this. To go there 4 years without any
work... and just not making any money to speak of.
John: That
was you.. but what was Tom feeling?
Dedlon: Yeah... that's
just it, I was thinking about what he would be thinking.
John:
What was he thinking?
Dedlon: I never... Thomas was kind of closed
wasn't he Ellen?
Mrs. Jensen: Yeah he is.. he didn’t...
Dedlon:
Yeah he didn't express
Mrs. Jensen: He didn't express himself.
Dedlon:
He didn't express his feeling... he'd get angry, you asked
him about that.
John: When did he start talking English? Thomas?
Mrs.
Jensen: Well... that came gradually.
John: So that's why....
Dedlon:
That came down at Elliot's of course, then he really started. When
he was at the by the Casale's he would get a dose there too, of
course, of English.
John: But you knew English when you..
uh... when Thomas came in '31, you knew English.
Dedlon:
I had been here since 1924.
John: So you'd known English.
Dedlon: That was 7 years.
John: So that's why you were...
Dedlon:
I was perfect in English (chuckle)
John: So, that's why
you were the salesman, because Tom couldn't talk to people.
Dedlon
No... I had to do all the talking... Thomas would not have been
able to sell them if I had not been around too. So, of course that
was..'31... that would have been '32 then, there.
John: Did he
smoke his cigar back then?
Dedlon: Yes
John: In '31?
Dedlon:
Yeah, smoked cigars...
John: Did he start it back when
he was working on these engines?
Dedlon.. Yeah... he was
smoking them, I think so... I don't know... can you finance cigars?
(laughter).
Mrs. Jensen: Well... I gave him all the money
I made, which was $10.00 a week.
John: Where did the wood
come from back then?
(Dedlon appears somewhat upset with the
$10.00 revelation)
Dedlon: But the cardboard boxes.. we had to
box these 50 for Macy's... we had the cardboard boxes... the
corrugated cardboard boxes to put them in. They were made at Victory
Glass, they made cardboard boxes for outsiders. So I went down there
and they got the dimensions and Victor Glass made... It was Victory
glass down in (garbled) you see the folds here and here... and
that was Mr. Egan. I think it was Mr Egan at that time.. I don't
remember at that time. and we brought them up to the company and
we packed them up there.
John: Did Tom run many of these
engines or did he just make them? Did he actually play with them?
Dedlon:
You mean did he test it? I don't recall now... I didn't have to
much to do with it... I just made parts.
John: I found
something interesting on this part here, on the steam chest. This
is different than Moens' in that on Moens' the 3 holes that you
drilled in here, you know, to go in had a rivet, a plug in it.
Dedlon:
That was my idea.
John: That was your idea?
Dedlon: Instead
of making that little piece, plugging the hole, that was my
idea.
John: Do you know when you came up with that idea?
Dedlon:
Oh no no
John: What year was that?
Dedlon: I can't remember...
John:
Because you see this design, that would have been before 1939...
because in 1939....
Dedlon: Oh sure... sure.
John: If you
were to guess, looking at this engine, when do you think you best
guess of when this would have been made?
Dedlon: It would be
impossible for me to say... in the beginning of the '30's.
John:
Did it look like some of the early ones?
Dedlon: These are all
the same... there were no changes.
John: No change... Well...
there are slight changes like this piece here. That's a slight change.
Dedlon:
Oh yeah...
John: See that's a slight change. See and I'm finding....
Dedlon:
Oh.... that might be some slight change.. and another thing here
too. Now Thomas he put (garbled). He had to solder it there
and solder there and solder there and so I got the idea... why not
press it? Press it together.
John: That's right.. that's what
we do now.
Dedlon Oh yeah... we done that all the time. I got
that idea and I made a tool for making them, see there is a tool
down there that you push the heads. You lay the part down in that
tool and that handle over there...they are all pressed together.
John:
All pressed together
Dedlon.. Well you've seen that tool, well,
I made that.
John Ok..
Dedlon: That was my idea.
John:
You don't know when you would have come up with that idea?
Dedlon:
that must have been sometime in the '30's
John: Because see..
this is soldered. this was made before your tool was made.
Dedlon:
Yeah... that's right. I got that idea because this here was
still soldered and this is solder, I think I don't know that
this was pressed together, I don't remember. But remember I got
the idea for pressing all these here together. (garbled). I don't....
I'm no good at remembering dates
John: Can you recall if this
would have been done before Tom worked at Elliot's, or would
this have been done after...
Dedlon: After... Oh yes...
that was quite late...
John: Ok.. the press thing. Tom would
have been working at Elliot's when you came up with that tool.
Dedlon:
It was done sometime in the 40's
John It's real interesting..
real interesting.
Dedlon: I wouldn't think its interesting
for your business.
John: Yeah we are. because we're trying to
document. We want to have a Jensen Steam Museum, down at the building
on Harrison. We want to take Tom's workshop out of his basement
at the house and move it up to the Harrison street factory that
we have there and then make it just like he had it.
Dedlon:
Where?
John: Your building on Harrison street.. the next building...
not the..
Dedlon: Oh the building that Glassco (garbled)
John:
We want to go back to there and then take Thomas' work shop, as
it is now, just as he left it and move it up there exactly the same
way.
Dedlon: Then I can show you the first lathe that the steam
engines were made on. I have it down in the cellar.
John: Is
that in here in this house?
Dedlon.. Yeah... oh yes. I have it...
it's still down there and still in use.
John: Can we go down
in your cellar and look?
Dedlon: Oh sure.
John: Is it safe
to go down there?
Dedlon: Me?.. yes
John: I don't want you
falling.
Dedlon: I'm going down there all the time... I
cooked dinner for myself and Thomas everyday.
John Yeah... that's
what Ellen tells me. If it would be ok I love to see it. I could
take a picture next time up.
Dedlon: Wonderful
John: Now that's
the original lathe that he used.
Dedlon: Yes
(John and Dedlon
go downstairs and a long rambling discussion ensues about Dedlon's
childhood and early life and some of Dedlon's various projects over
the years)
Dedlon: The lathe is here... still in use. It was
all made on this lathe.
(more long rambling discussion of acquiring
early machine tools and materials for Dedlon's personal shop)
(John
and Dedlon return upstairs and Dedlon takes a break)
(personal
discussion between John and Mrs Jensen concerning matters of food,
her glasses and such)
Dedlon: There was another thing also Thomas
wanted to make... this I discussed, that was a steam turbine.
I don't think that would sell because that's just a shaft running
around.
John: You can't see anything...
Dedlon: No... with
steam engines you see all these things. so I said to him I don't
think that's an engine to show, it's like an electric motor.. you
just see the shaft run around. What's that you have there?
John:
What?
(Dedlon spots John's pocket recorder)
Dedlon What's
that red light?
John: That's just my radio.
Dedlon: Ok
John:
Dedlon, tell Mrs. Jensen what Elliot's said about Tom's quality...
of his work
Dedlon: Joe is still chief draftsman there.
He said when Tom left there we couldn't find a man of his caliber.
(discussion
of family and friends and various employee family relations and
histories, who'd died and who moved etc.)
John: Did Thomas ever
give you a clue or were you able to figure out how he came up with
the numbers that he assigned to the steam engines?
Dedlon: No...
Mrs.
Jensen: I think they just came out of his head.
John: He's got
a 5 and a 10 and he's got a 15 generator.
Dedlon: Always
step in 5's
John: always stepped in 5's right... all the way
up to 90. 80.. no the 90 was the Atomic engine.
Dedlon: In '48
I think... we went home in '48. Then I ...Lomborg is a town in Denmark,
I saw in a toy store there... these real small machine tools. A
milling machine, a drill press and so on. So, I bought them all
and took them over here and showed them to Thomas and said I think
you ought to make this. I was still helping out here making steam
engines... not all the time though. Then Owel over there in Hermity
(sp?) he got them and made dies for them. but, he said I think
you need to make them a little bit bigger than the ones I bought
Denmark.. They were accessorised but they were smaller.. have you
seen them?... the small ones?
John: Oh yes.. I've seen them..
the ones Tom made...
Dedlon: Yeah.. he made... but I mean the
ones they were made from.
John: No.. I haven't seen those.
Dedlon:
Well they are smaller.. they were... the ones I bought
in Denmark when I got that idea that might be something. I
took it back here and showed it to Thomas and, of course, Thomas
agreed. That's when we started making them over in Hermity.
John:
That guy over there,
Dedlon: Owel was his name...
John: Carl
Owel, he's still living.
Dedlon: I think he is...
John: I
saw him a couple of months ago when I was up here.
Dedlon: He
made the dies and castings, but later on Thomas, stopped making
them.
Mrs. Jensen: He dropped them, I don't know why...
Dedlon:
But it was my idea because I saw then in a store over there.
John:
And when do you think .. was it about 1948?
Dedlon: When I bought
them we were home back in Denmark. I think it was '48... but
you can verify that with Moens, he knows exactly when I bought
them. I think it was '48.
Mrs. Jensen: Yeah that would have been.
Dedlon:
Then I brought them back here and suggested that we start making
them and that was accepted.
Mrs. Jensen: But I wonder why he
stopped making them. Maybe he didn't have enough sales for them?
John:
Well now, see they are real collectors items. Some of them sell
for $400.00, some of Thomas's tools... $250.00 to $400.00.
Mrs.
Jensen: You mean those...
John: Little red tools
Mrs. Jensen:
Those little saws and drills...and whatever they were?
Dedlon:
Machine tools, there was a hammer, a milling machine...
John:
Shaper, and a saw.. 5 tools and a little line shaft.
Dedlon:
Now...the line shaft I didn't buy.. That was something Thomas made.
John Right.. He did make that.
Dedlon: Yeah.. but the machine
tools, I saw them in the store over there, it was LomBorg there
was a toy store in Lomborg, I saw them there. I thought that might
be something, but I think they were too small. So when we make them
we should make them bigger. And of course that was accepted and
he made the dies and also the casting for that when they were made.
John:
They still have the casting machine over in Hermity.
Dedlon:
Do they still have the dies?
John: We have the dies, they're
over in Jeannette..on Arlington.
Dedlon: Owel made them.
but it was... I got an idea when I saw them individual over there...
I went in and bought them.
John: You don't know where they are
today do you? Where are the ones you bought?
Dedlon: I don't
know... they were given to Owel to copy, but I suppose Owel brought
them back, I don't know. He made them 20% or 25 %, 50% bigger, I
don't know what it was.. but I know he said I think they were too
small if you want them... and that was what was done then. That's
what was standard.
John: They used to sell for $6.00, already
mounted on the board. I've got the old sales records. Well.. let
me.. um.. let me put this in the car. I thought you'd like to see
that.
Dedlon: The steam engine?
John: Yeah.. the one
I had to show you...
Dedlon: Isn't that the same as the one Moens
has?
John: Except that it's a little earlier, it doesn't have
the plugs that you designed... the rivets, the plugs in the steam
chest.
Dedlon: Yeah.. that was my idea...
John So this was
before then. So we think its probably 1935 or 36.
Dedlon:
Yeah maybe so...
John: Somewhere in that area.
Dedlon: Oh...
What difference does it make?
(Dedlon seems to sense the fun
is ending and gets a little cross, but he quickly recovers with
a fresh subject that slows John in his tracks.)
John: It helps
us determine what differences he's done in his engineering.. so
we see different improvements of the line. We had another real,
real old one in yesterday, might have been '33 or '34 a guy brought
in.
Mrs. Jensen: Maybe you want to write a book about this.
John:
Well.. we're going to have it in the museum.
Dedlon: I know someone
who has one now... I saw him oh... some years.. 3, 4 5 years ago.
Do you remember (Name redacted by request) done at the post office
when we were down there.. do you remember him, He was a clerk down
at the post office. He got one of the very earliest ones and he
some years ago he told me I still have that engine, he said. He's
dead now.
(a discussion of how one might track down this engine
ensued as John goes into collector mode but Dedlon would only provide
vague almost teasing information. Other than sharing that
the fellow had long left the post office, being about Dedlon's age,
little of useful information was forthcoming . John was never
able to track this engine down, although he made a fairly thorough
attempt)
(extended goodbyes and exchanged thank you's as John
assists Mrs. Jensen to the car)
(End of interview)
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